A Look at Germany’s Hospital System Reform

In this episode, Leader's Edge hosts its second conversation at The Council's Employee Benefits Leadership Forum, with Jochen Körner, CEO of Ecclesia Group, a Germany-based brokerage.

Körner dives into detail about the Krankenhausversorgungsverbesserungsgesetz, which is changing how the German hospital system operates and funds itself. Körner also shares how his family’s history of working at brokerages led to his career in insurance and offers advice for people looking to break into the industry.

Read the Transcript   

Disclaimer: Podcast transcriptions are computer generated, please excuse errors. For the most accurate version of the conversation, please refer to audio.  

Jochen Körner: 
Think beyond insurance. Be the go-to person for your clients. Have something to say and just be passionate what you do. Finally, be a good person. Good things will happen to good people. If you do that, you’re going to have a great, rewarding career.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Welcome to the Leader’s Edge podcast. I’m Zach Ewell, market analyst and podcast producer. Last spring, I had the pleasure to host several conversations at this year’s Employee Benefits Leadership Forum in Colorado Springs. In fact, several conversations were so intriguing that we at Leader’s Edge decided to turn them into a podcast miniseries. In our second episode featuring conversations we had at EBLF, I talk with Jochen Körner, CEO of Ecclesia Group, a German-based insurance brokerage. Körner discusses how he fell into the insurance business from an international perspective, explains the intricacies of Germany’s latest healthcare system overhaul, and shares his advice for young people who want to break into the insurance industry. Give it a listen.  

Jochen, thank you so much for joining me.  

 
Jochen Körner: 
Thanks for having me. My first podcast.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Oh, wow. We’re honored. I’m going to start off with a little bit of a personal question. Tell me about your journey breaking into the insurance industry. Did you always have an eye for risk?  

 
Jochen Körner: 
Eye for risk, maybe. Insurance, certainly not. However, broking runs in my blood. My family had two companies.  
A potato wholesaling company and a freight forwarding company, which essentially is broking. My grandmother, God bless, always said, I’d rather trade with my little finger than work with my whole arm.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Sounds like a smart woman.  

 
Jochen Körner: 
She was definitely a force of nature.  
Really, what got me into it? I asked a friend of my mother, where can I do an internship in summer during college? She said, well, I work for an insurance broker, which was now Marsh, and it’s great. You have an office in New York and people wear cufflinks. I was sold. Then I stepped foot into the office there, summer of ’97 and never regretted it. Never left the industry. I loved it ever since.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Oh, wow. Okay. That’s very fascinating. Instead of insurance brokerage in a sense, throughout all the different industries. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that “brokerage is in your blood.”  
My next question is a little bit more about employee benefits. With Ecclesia offices and clients in many countries, I assume that geopolitics is a big concern for you lately. How has the geopolitical situation impacted your regions and clients?  

 
Jochen Körner: 
Great question and let me answer in various dimensions if I may. Of course, it matters by client segment, client size, exposure. However, this has changed in these uncertain times we’re living in, whereas political risk was always out there, but it was something for the “big boys.” Only the very global companies had to worry about it.  
Now, especially the last six months or so, it really came down to even small companies, because their supply chains are affected, cost of replacement is affected because of tariffs here in the US specifically. Everything changes in the whirlwind. Everything changed overnight. It’s a huge thing. Political risk and geopolitical risk has become more at the forefront of all our clients; it takes a larger part in our advisory role.  

Ecclesia, we can talk about it later if you want. We did this partnership with SRG in London, and they just invested heavily into political risk focusing on that area because there’s client demand. It’s big and especially on the benefit side. You have to see, when you talk global benefits, how you can take them back, how you can move money from one country to the other and so on and so forth. It’s becoming ever more complex, nerve wracking at times also for our employees, for our clients. I say, that’s when you need broker. You don’t need a good broker when everything is easy, right? When the weather gets rough, that’s when you need a good captain.  

 
Zach Ewell:  You’re there for the hard stuff. My next question is more specific to Germany. Recently the German Health Ministry introduced the KHVVG. It’s a very long word. I know krankenhaus, I took some German in high school, is hospital. Could you pronounce it real quick?  

 
Jochen Körner: 
It’s Krankenhausstrukturreform. The KHVVG is the legal acronym for it. It’s the krankenhausstrukturreform, which basically is the reform of the healthcare landscape in Germany. It is the biggest, most far-reaching structural reform we ever had. It’s one of those things everybody, we have not just two aisles, we have multiple aisles.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Yes. You’re not a two-party system like us in the US.  

 
Jochen Körner: 
Everybody across the system, most people, would agree that something needs to be done. How it’s done, that’s up for debate, especially the NIMBY acronym, the Not in my Backyard. It’s a big debate.  

What the reform aims to do is restructure how hospitals provide service and are financed. One is a reclassification by service groups, so hospitals are assigned into various groups, depending on the levels and what they perform. That should reduce duplication and ensure specialization, which is a big thing. Also translates into quality, translates into then risk mitigation. They intend to do a huge shift from stationary care. Do you call it inpatient?  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Yes, inpatient.  

 
Jochen Körner: 
Inpatient care to outpatient care. Big thing. On top of it, a more targeted investment infrastructure, including digitalization. Big thing. Far reaching. Long. In the midst of it, we had a change of government to see what they will do. I hope they will do the right thing that needs to be done. Our system is one of the most expensive globally. Not as expensive as the US but not far of it. We have to become better and more efficient.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
I was doing some reading and it was interesting. There’s similarities in the US, where it seemed like in this plan, in this legislation, it targeted the differences between urban and rural areas and hospitals. As you’re aware, medical inflation is a big concern in the US. Is this also the case abroad in Germany?  

 
Jochen Körner: 
Absolutely. It’s a global phenomenon. It’s driven, I think, by the aging populations, by chronic conditions, medical invasion, labor shortage and so on, so forth. By no means Germany isn’t immune to that. It’s a huge thing, of course, in Germany, like the US with Medicare a bit. Unlike the US, we have these statutory health insurance concepts in Germany and those are also under pressure. Another recent phenomenon is the weight control medicines like Ozempic.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Sure. Everybody knows about Ozempic now.  

 
Jochen Körner: 
What does it mean to our Social Security systems? If people live much longer, they will need much longer care, so how will this change? It’s very fascinating. I think there’s a lot to be discussed along the way. Another very interesting phenomenon on inflation is if you look at mankind. In the Western world, what has not changed is the time spent working. That has not changed, but the care years have been extended because we live much longer.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
Sure, we do.  

 
Jochen Körner: 
There are a lot of factors getting into that discussion and it’s fascinating. Again, you need a good broker, and you need good partners.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
It’s very simple and it makes sense, cause and effect, changing the drugs we take, such as Ozempic, or our lifestyles, and living longer, that puts a lot of stress on the healthcare infrastructure, whether it be the US or abroad, such as in Germany.  

My last question, this one’s more personal. We’re bringing it all the way back. What advice would you give to a young insurance professional who has recently entered our industry?  

 
Jochen Körner: 
A few things. Be curious, ask questions, look for a mentor, go on client events, ask for a ride-along. You just learn and absorb, and of course do stuff nobody else wants to do. Then, you learn. Of course, master the fundamentals. You have to be technically good on something, not on everything, just something. Being relentless, being smart.  

Our careers are marathons. They really are. That’s how it should be. I know it takes time, but it’s such a great industry. It touches so many industries, lives, people. I think I would conclude with think beyond insurance. Try to solve problems. Be the go-to person for your clients. Have something to say. Just be passionate about what you do. Finally, be a good person. Good things will happen to good people. If you do that, you’re going to have a great, rewarding career.  

 
Zach Ewell: 
That was my conversation with Jochen Körner, CEO of the Ecclesia Group. I hope you enjoyed it. To listen and subscribe to Leader’s Edge podcasts, go to leadersedge.com or wherever you get your podcasts.